What Is Zeiss Lens Cleaner Made of

#151

Posted 24 March 2019 - 10:48 PM

I have used the exact same zeiss cleaner at work and no issues.

I've used it on a wide variety of optics, too, zero issues.

#152 James Ball

Posted 25 March 2019 - 12:08 AM

Straight off my bottle - Zeiss Lens Cleaner, "Ingredients: Deionized water, 2-butoxyethanol, proprietary detergents and preservatives."

For S's & Giggles, I just cleaned my C8 corrector plate (again!) with it. No dissolved coatings - just a clean corrector plate.

Ken

2-butoxyehanol is the main ingredient in Formula 409 cleaner. If you have some of that, compare the odor with the Zeiss cleaner and see if they are the same. The Zeiss I have does have a strong odor, somewhat like ammonia but 2-butoxyethanol also has a slightly ammonia like odor.

#153 sydney

Posted 25 March 2019 - 12:25 AM

Maybe the cleaner is fine and the scope is counterfeit.

#154 Boom

Posted 25 March 2019 - 12:41 AM

#155 gnowellsct

Posted 25 March 2019 - 12:47 AM

2 butoxyethanol is often used in cleaning optics and is the main ingredient of Edmund optics' techspec lens cleaning fluid. I'll bet they charge a lot less for it than Zeiss.

#156 gnowellsct

Posted 25 March 2019 - 12:55 AM

But if this is something really skanky I'd remove corrector and clean with acetone. The secondary would need to be removed. Orientation of secondary and corrector marked. Acetone eats plastic and removes finishing so you need to use it in a relatively secure place.

#157 Asbytec

Posted 25 March 2019 - 05:45 AM

Something came off of the corrector when cleaning. What is on the cloth(which was used)-after cleaning? Something has to be on the cleaning cloth

No, but the cloth was 4% brighter. (Sorry for the rude crack at humor.)

After trying to figure this out, along with the rest of us, I am sure the OP is correct the copper hue is the coating and it has come off. Normally they are pretty tough, so I think the coating has failed over the decades. Maybe some moisture, humidity, or whatever cause. If the coating has failed, it may be better off without a coating with very likely very small to absolutely no noticeable affect. But, let the OP take his time and think it through.

Meade has already disavowed it by saying they recommend a different cleaning solution, and as Daniel said, probably should not hold a warranty on an older scope trading in the used market. Normally, I do not believe /authentic/ Zeiss cleaning fluid would hurt a healthy coating. In this case it looks to have done so to an unhealthy one. It's a bit unfortunate, but far from a total loss of an otherwise (what appears to be) a descent scope.

Take your time, then consider "cleaning" the rest of the corrector and enjoying it, and spend less time fretting about it. I've fretted over the slightest blemishes before, but the fretting is soon forgotten with use because I never noticed it while observing. It'll pass soon enough and you'll have a nice scope. Maybe even a keeper. Chin up...

Edited by Asbytec, 25 March 2019 - 05:47 AM.

#158 Richard Whalen

Posted 25 March 2019 - 10:46 AM

I would clean the rest of it. Coatings are very tough, Ive seen Uncle Al cleaning optics with acetone at a star party. Of the hundreds of scopes I have used or looked at I have never seen one with brown or copper coatings. Never seen a coating rub off by just cleaning, might flake off if going bad. I have used Ziess for years with no problems on dozens of scopes and hundreds of eyepieces. My guess is either something outgassed it was stored in or tobacco smoke.

I had a early Meade 4" SCT, was coated but I could never see it unless out in the sun at just the right angle. Even then it was just detectable. Very light blue.

#159 Michael Covington

Posted 25 March 2019 - 12:54 PM

Meade has already disavowed it by saying they recommend a different cleaning solution, and as Daniel said, probably should not hold a warranty on an older scope trading in the used market. Normally, I do not believe /authentic/ Zeiss cleaning fluid would hurt a healthy coating. In this case it looks to have done so to an unhealthy one. It's a bit unfortunate, but far from a total loss of an otherwise (what appears to be) a descent scope.

What cleaner does Meade recommend?

#160 E Sully

Posted 25 March 2019 - 04:48 PM

Meade recommended 3 parts distilled water to 1 part 90 percent isopropyl alcohol using soft white unscented tissues for my LX200 Classic.

Edited by E Sully, 25 March 2019 - 04:49 PM.

#161 photoracer18

Posted 25 March 2019 - 05:08 PM

I also doubt its the Zeiss cleaner. The proper coatings should be bluish in color if I remember correctly. I have done a lot of scopes when I worked for Gary Hand even in observatories. I use the essentially the same techniques than RC does at A-P and that is regent grade acetone for really bad conditions and have yet to take any coatings off. If its a scope I am unfamiliar with I start with distilled water and then alcohol, and the Zeiss cleaner is primarily alcohol. If you see brown I suggest while it may have never been used it might have been setup in a house with a serious smoker in it for a long period of time.

#162 Toddeo

Posted 25 March 2019 - 05:27 PM

Whats weird is , until this topic- I've never heard of brownish/copper toned coatings on any sct. If they are out there- they have to be fairly rare!

#163 greenstars3

Posted 25 March 2019 - 05:49 PM

I skipped ahead after page 4 but I wanted to say that Takahashi states in no uncertain terms DO NOT USE AMMONIA BASED CLEANERS ON OPTICS OR IT WILL DESTROY YOUR LENS AND MIRROR COATINGS.

Sorry for all caps but thought this was something that needed to be stressed. While I know that it may be an apples to oranges from Tak to Meade coatings, nonetheless please take the warning to heart.

Robert

#164 Michael Covington

Posted 25 March 2019 - 06:39 PM

I skipped ahead after page 4 but I wanted to say that Takahashi states in no uncertain terms DO NOT USE AMMONIA BASED CLEANERS ON OPTICS OR IT WILL DESTROY YOUR LENS AND MIRROR COATINGS.

Sorry for all caps but thought this was something that needed to be stressed. While I know that it may be an apples to oranges from Tak to Meade coatings, nonetheless please take the warning to heart.

Robert

Which is why he used Zeiss lens cleaner, which does not contain ammonia. And why I and others raised the possibility of the Zeiss product being counterfeit.

#165 greenstars3

Posted 25 March 2019 - 10:04 PM

Michael you are correct something must be wrong with the cleaner as the formula states just: surfactant, water and alcohol. I thought the warning was applicable to this thread. The cleaner the OP used must have been FUBAR.

Robert

#166 archer1960

Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:03 AM

I actually did call Zeiss earlier but ended up getting the machine so left a message and also sent an email to their lens department along with photos.

I also called Meade and spoke with one of their techs who told me the coatings could have been damaged as they do not recommend anything other than alcohol and water solution.

The Zeiss cleaner definitely smells of ammonia -- smells almost identical to your typical windex -- i tested it on sunglasses and they came out ok, but I am also seeing online that ammonia can break down AR lens coatings..

I've never seen a lens cleaner that smelled of ammonia; glass cleaners that are intended to remove grease, yes, but not lens/glasses cleaners. I'm leaning toward the "counterfeit product" theory, that is made more likely because you bought it off Amazon, rather than from a reputable dealer.

#167 archer1960

Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:07 AM

Yup. That's my go-to lens cleaner.

#168 archer1960

Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:09 AM

The rubber seal the corrector plate rested on provides 100% seal at that point on its backside -- and yet again the coating is there too -- honestly it is in no way any smoke or anything of the sort.

The coating did not flake off, it seems as if it dissolved, I can take photos of the cloth, but it really is just plain white.

As for any cleaner doing this -- mixture of isopropyl alc + water + dish soap did not have this effect even when i scrubbed hard against the existing coating, whereas the zeiss liquid just immediately dissolves it...

Trust me it is difficult for me to believe this happening to me too, but it did ... and i feel greatly deceived and cheated by Zeiss.

I have already reached out to them leaving them 1 voicemail and 1 email.

I suspect it's not really a Zeiss product...

#169 kksmith

Posted 27 March 2019 - 04:53 AM

Michael you are correct something must be wrong with the cleaner as the formula states just: surfactant, water and alcohol. I thought the warning was applicable to this thread. The cleaner the OP used must have been FUBAR.

Robert

The liquid version of Zeiss contains "Deionized water, 2-butoxyethanol, proprietary detergents and preservatives". The packaged Zeiss Lens Wipes contain "Water, isopropyl alcohol, proprietary detergents and preservatives". While both are Zeiss products for cleaning lenses - chemically they are different. While 2-butoxyethanol is an alcohol - it isn't the same as the isopropyl used in the Wipes.

I suspect maybe the 2-butoxyethanol is the culprit - it's also described as a "solvent" elsewhere. Still - it hasn't removed the coating from my C8 after many uses. If my coating had looked as bad as the OP's coating - it just might have. Especially since his looked more like surface grime than an actual coating.

Ken

Edited by kksmith, 27 March 2019 - 05:03 AM.

#170 kksmith

Posted 27 March 2019 - 04:57 AM

"2-Butoxyethanol is a solvent for paints and surface coatings, as well as cleaning products and inks.[6][9] Products that contain 2-butoxyethanol include acrylic resin formulations, asphalt release agents, firefighting foam, leather protectors, oil spill dispersants, degreaser applications, photographic strip solutions, whiteboard cleaners, liquid soaps, cosmetics, dry cleaning solutions, lacquers, varnishes, herbicides, latex paints, enamels, printing paste, and varnish removers, and silicone caulk. Products containing this compound are commonly found at construction sites, automobile repair shops, print shops, and facilities that produce sterilizing and cleaning products. It is the main ingredient of many home, commercial and industrial cleaning solutions. Since the molecule has both non-polar and polar ends, butoxyethanol is useful for removing both polar and non-polar substances, like grease and oils. It is also approved by the U.S. FDA to be used as direct and indirect food additives, which include antimicrobial agents, defoamers, stabilizers, and adhesives.[10]"

#171 kksmith

Posted 27 March 2019 - 05:10 AM

2-butoxyehanol is the main ingredient in Formula 409 cleaner. If you have some of that, compare the odor with the Zeiss cleaner and see if they are the same. The Zeiss I have does have a strong odor, somewhat like ammonia but 2-butoxyethanol also has a slightly ammonia like odor.

My Formula 409 doesn't have 2-butoxyethanol - it has ammonia listed.

#172 Spikey131

Posted 27 March 2019 - 08:05 AM

Wow. 7 pages and 171 (now 172) posts on this.

If cleaning solution damages your coatings, the problem is the coatings.

But I guess that has been said. And said. And said.........

Edited by Spikey131, 27 March 2019 - 11:13 AM.

#173 Astrojedi

Posted 27 March 2019 - 09:26 AM

Proceed with caution. Many years ago I had a Meade coating fail on me. I decided then not to buy Meade and any 'classic' scopes.

The coatings are there for a reason. Without the coatings contrast gets impacted although effect will be subtle. I would not be in a haste to fix this. What has happened has happened.

#174 Kokatha man

Posted 27 March 2019 - 06:45 PM

I would not be in a haste to fix this. What has happened has happened.

Sounds like an Astro Jedi thing to say...and "what will be, will be" - err, hang on, that's a song! :rofl:

#175 genericnj

Posted 28 March 2019 - 02:18 PM

Apologies for not posting updates in the last couple of days -- I'm going back and forth with Zeiss and an attorney and will update once I have a more 'favorable' response -- I'm giving them the benefit of doubt and holding making any comments until I have more... stay tuned..

What Is Zeiss Lens Cleaner Made of

Source: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/654937-ruined-corrector-plate-coating-with-zeiss-lens-cleaner/page-7